This reminds me of that old Picasso story (urban legend?) There’s a few versions burn the nut of it is someone sees him at a bar/store/park and asks him to do a quick sketch on a napkin. He does, and when he hands it over asks for $20 million dollars. The fan, baffled, replies “but it only took you 5 minutes to do that sketch!” And he says, “it took me 20 years to do that sketch in 5 minutes.”
I was recently asked by a young woman if I would like to go back to work soon (I have an almost 4 year old and a 2 year old) and I had the aha moment of realising that I never stopped working, I just stopped being paid. I'm not even taking about the mothering part. I mean my creative work. I've been working throughout motherhood on things that I just haven't packaged and sold yet and I know the time will come for that and it will be soon! Thank you for these reflections ❤️
I completely understand! Sometimes I feel guilty when my mind is buzzing and reflecting while I’m with the children but at the same time that’s just how life is for me and I cannot not have ideas. Instead I try to see it as a blessing that I get to reflect on things and let them mature on the mind while I’m simultaneously playing with the children. More often than not, something they say or do sparks off further ideas too…
Well written Elin. None of the artists I know are well enough paid for their craft. People just don’t understand. I love to knit. People often ask me if I would knit them something, and I chuckle and tell them they cannot afford me! 🤭 it’s true! A decent yarn for a sweater would cost $250, plus the time to knit it (which could be a month since it was a second job). I’d often get asked “why don’t you just go buy a sweater? I never tried to explain beyond asking them if they had ever worn a sweater made from excellent wool, designed to fit their body perfectly.
Thanks Teyani! Yes it’s sad but true. We’ve made it well thanks to combining multiple avenues such as paid partnerships, exhibitions, commissions as well as physical and online workshops along with digital patterns and also a 2 memberships… combining many different streams takes time and energy and I suppose needs a side of entrepreneurial spirit too which many feel overwhelmed by, which I also understand.
Haha yes I love knitting too but wow is it expensive haha grateful my mum is a knitaholic so she knits lots and get lots of yarn (though a benefit with our work is that I’ve rarely paid for material… got a lot of sponsored yarn for my projects thanks to our social presence) anyhow the response “you can’t afford me” is brilliant. It’s actually how I got my first embroidery commission… and the guy said “oh I can” and he paid me very well and I was in chock haha. But in a good way!
What you say is so true. I am a mother of 2 young boys. Although motherhood has forced me to be more creative and that has had a positive impact on my work, it happens that since I have been traveling in a motorhome, the lack of routine and spaces “for me” has made my work difficult. And it is paradoxical, because you would think that the more stimuli, the better the results would be, but weaving is very slow. just like embroidery. Thank you for sharing your experience, now I know that I am not the only one 😅 and the series of tapestries I made as a result of this trip would cost millions of dollars, if I charged per hour for inspiration, research, weaving, etc 😂
You’re definitely not alone 💞 travelling in a motorhome sounds amazing though… it’s my dream to get one haha, but I totally see how it doesn’t make you’re able to get the work done.
It’s partly why I’m excited to have substack as my side project because I can write when I walk around as my baby sleep in the carrier, or I write in the bed at night. Embroidery (and weaving too) aren’t just slow art forms but require good daylight too…
For someone who is also having a conventional charge per hour job, it's actually also not as simple as that there. For a junior consultant, it may be $20/hour, while an expert may charge $100/hour. Therefore being experienced would impact how much you're paid even by a 10 minutes art work. So even for the same project where a junior and an expert work together in it, they both weren't paid the same even though the project ran 10 hours till completion for both of them. It may be easier for us, in this case, technical experts, to quote our "years of experience", but it's still quite arbitrary how much one can negotiate to earn per hour, it defers even from expert to expert with the same years of experience. In the end, it's about how much you want to value/charge for your work and to find another willing buyer/believer/fan to agree to pay that?
One thing I think is really cool about writing is how I'm working on it even when I'm not working on it, even subconsciously sometimes, and a solution will just pop into my head out of nowhere. But there's no way to get paid an hourly rate for that! Ha ha.
Absolutely agree! The value of creative work isn’t just in the hours spent on the final piece but in the years of learning, experimenting, and planning that lead up to it. Charging per project makes so much more sense because it acknowledges all the unseen effort and expertise that go into creating something truly exceptional.
Mmmmm this really made me think. I love that you reflect on this idea of invisible work. I think motherhood and creativity come hand in hand, they are almost tautological. And there is so much unseen work in both: the pregnant bump (especially before it shows) which is so taxing on the mother's body but imperceptible to anyone else, the infinite reflections over the artistic outcome that becomes eventually a painting or a novel. Both are almost completely hidden from the public eye but are so crucial to us bearing fruit. And then of course there are painful and sometimes tragic times for both mothers and creators when the invisible work never sees the light of day. Lots to think about here.
How we love to put things in neat categories ~ the age old debate of splitting artist from mother is yet another consequence of our society’s inability to recognise that a woman can have a varied and full life with numerous identities. There's this mythology that being a woman artist is hard enough but once we become mothers it's near impossible EXCEPT look around at all the evidence. There's so MUCH artist mother talent. Look in the mirror my friend.
Getting paid for actual value of work - neither care nor artistry is valued enough. The underlying narrative seems to be that anyone could supply care (if they are mothers/women) and that anyone could learn to be artists. It's the undervaluation of what is included in the skills involved and the process plus in unseen/invisible aspects that is powerful in your piece.
🌀 Bust the myth of the entirely selfless mother figure. This pervasive ideology tries to suppress mother’s own needs with very practical implications for all mothers, artists or not.
🌀 Make invisible elements of being mother artists visible.
Your article puts your voice into that discussion! Bravo!
Love love this Danusia! And thank you 🙏🏼 the last bit of making the invisible visible is super fascinating to me and something I contemplate on all the time and I think pieces like this as well as imperfect audio, photos, videos whatever way you express, are all part of that process 💞
On Instagram yesterday, I saw a ceramic artist recall a story where someone was like, "for the price of your items I can just take a class and learn to do it myself!" Which is certainly a choice. But it also reveals how much people don't appreciate the fact that art costs money and artists arent obligated to work for free. I think this expectation of free labor from certain types of visual artists is astounding.
I love embroidery! I've never paid for a loop but I haven't found anyone who makes the type of art I like to buy.
Right, it’s a choice as you say, I actually (when I got those comments) told them to make it themselves no harsh feelings. Because I wouldn’t want someone who doesn’t value ME doing it to buy it. An art piece is not a commodity, it’s an emotional experience 🙏🏼
This resonates deeply! I'm not a human mother but one of my full-time jobs is to be our household manager, and the mental load is constant. I'm grateful for our family situation that allows me to take on smaller projects, but I often feel the need to justify my daily agenda, to "make it count."
Oh how I feel you on the “need to justify bit”, I used to feel like that too despite making a full time income from my art…. It’s mind blowing really how deeply rooted the brainwashing of what counts as work and not sits! And to venture out on new yet un-paid trials… oh how dare you! 😅 deeply appreciate you joining me in the journey 🥰🙏🏼💞
"Expressing and embodying the invisible work as part of your artistic persona" is such a beautiful concept. It really has to be considered part of the job! My mentor used to go on a long walk every day. When they moved to a new little town, his wife went around to all the neighbors and asked them please not to talk to him on his walks. "It might look like he's just walking the dog," she told them, "but he's actually very hard at work." I've always struggled to give myself the same permission to be truly, deeply busy with the invisible work of being a writer, creator, and mother. Thank you for this important reminder!
This reminds me of that old Picasso story (urban legend?) There’s a few versions burn the nut of it is someone sees him at a bar/store/park and asks him to do a quick sketch on a napkin. He does, and when he hands it over asks for $20 million dollars. The fan, baffled, replies “but it only took you 5 minutes to do that sketch!” And he says, “it took me 20 years to do that sketch in 5 minutes.”
Ah yes!! I’ll need to read that again, absolutely love that sentence 🙏🏼🙏🏼👏
It’s one I return to frequently!
I was recently asked by a young woman if I would like to go back to work soon (I have an almost 4 year old and a 2 year old) and I had the aha moment of realising that I never stopped working, I just stopped being paid. I'm not even taking about the mothering part. I mean my creative work. I've been working throughout motherhood on things that I just haven't packaged and sold yet and I know the time will come for that and it will be soon! Thank you for these reflections ❤️
I completely understand! Sometimes I feel guilty when my mind is buzzing and reflecting while I’m with the children but at the same time that’s just how life is for me and I cannot not have ideas. Instead I try to see it as a blessing that I get to reflect on things and let them mature on the mind while I’m simultaneously playing with the children. More often than not, something they say or do sparks off further ideas too…
Well written Elin. None of the artists I know are well enough paid for their craft. People just don’t understand. I love to knit. People often ask me if I would knit them something, and I chuckle and tell them they cannot afford me! 🤭 it’s true! A decent yarn for a sweater would cost $250, plus the time to knit it (which could be a month since it was a second job). I’d often get asked “why don’t you just go buy a sweater? I never tried to explain beyond asking them if they had ever worn a sweater made from excellent wool, designed to fit their body perfectly.
Thanks Teyani! Yes it’s sad but true. We’ve made it well thanks to combining multiple avenues such as paid partnerships, exhibitions, commissions as well as physical and online workshops along with digital patterns and also a 2 memberships… combining many different streams takes time and energy and I suppose needs a side of entrepreneurial spirit too which many feel overwhelmed by, which I also understand.
Haha yes I love knitting too but wow is it expensive haha grateful my mum is a knitaholic so she knits lots and get lots of yarn (though a benefit with our work is that I’ve rarely paid for material… got a lot of sponsored yarn for my projects thanks to our social presence) anyhow the response “you can’t afford me” is brilliant. It’s actually how I got my first embroidery commission… and the guy said “oh I can” and he paid me very well and I was in chock haha. But in a good way!
Exactly! "You can't afford me!"
What you say is so true. I am a mother of 2 young boys. Although motherhood has forced me to be more creative and that has had a positive impact on my work, it happens that since I have been traveling in a motorhome, the lack of routine and spaces “for me” has made my work difficult. And it is paradoxical, because you would think that the more stimuli, the better the results would be, but weaving is very slow. just like embroidery. Thank you for sharing your experience, now I know that I am not the only one 😅 and the series of tapestries I made as a result of this trip would cost millions of dollars, if I charged per hour for inspiration, research, weaving, etc 😂
You’re definitely not alone 💞 travelling in a motorhome sounds amazing though… it’s my dream to get one haha, but I totally see how it doesn’t make you’re able to get the work done.
It’s partly why I’m excited to have substack as my side project because I can write when I walk around as my baby sleep in the carrier, or I write in the bed at night. Embroidery (and weaving too) aren’t just slow art forms but require good daylight too…
Absolutely!
I totally agree, Elin, and this reminds me of one of my favourite books "What Mothers Do: Especially When it Looks Like Nothing by Naomi Stadlen.
I love your husband's embroidery, with Van Gogh inspired patterns and colours but his own twist.
Oh I’ve got to google that right away, sounds like it’s very much down my alley! Thanks so much for the recommendation 💞
Indeed, he’s done plenty of Van Gogh inspired skies which have been time consuming but oh so lovely!
For someone who is also having a conventional charge per hour job, it's actually also not as simple as that there. For a junior consultant, it may be $20/hour, while an expert may charge $100/hour. Therefore being experienced would impact how much you're paid even by a 10 minutes art work. So even for the same project where a junior and an expert work together in it, they both weren't paid the same even though the project ran 10 hours till completion for both of them. It may be easier for us, in this case, technical experts, to quote our "years of experience", but it's still quite arbitrary how much one can negotiate to earn per hour, it defers even from expert to expert with the same years of experience. In the end, it's about how much you want to value/charge for your work and to find another willing buyer/believer/fan to agree to pay that?
Thank you Rachel for adding this valuable insight!! Of course valuing one’s work goes across the board and will impact pricing in every way 🙏🏼
Yeah, so I think the challenge lies in matching the values between giver and receiver. Also, not to undervalue ourselves! Such delicate balances...
Indeed!!
And you're welcome. Glad to share in your thought provoking articles :)
Thank you 🥰🥰
One thing I think is really cool about writing is how I'm working on it even when I'm not working on it, even subconsciously sometimes, and a solution will just pop into my head out of nowhere. But there's no way to get paid an hourly rate for that! Ha ha.
Haha right, imagine saying “I thought about it for 10 hours so hand over the dollars please” 👏👏
invisibility is this constant standing in the rye
i can see it and feel it and by this all creation and art is recognized-feeling someone's standing in the rye ready to catch, for years if needed
it's hard for me now to say what I'm trying to say, oh well. I'll just leave it then as is
Thank you, Erin
So beautiful! Thank you Chen 🙏🏼
Absolutely agree! The value of creative work isn’t just in the hours spent on the final piece but in the years of learning, experimenting, and planning that lead up to it. Charging per project makes so much more sense because it acknowledges all the unseen effort and expertise that go into creating something truly exceptional.
Mmmmm this really made me think. I love that you reflect on this idea of invisible work. I think motherhood and creativity come hand in hand, they are almost tautological. And there is so much unseen work in both: the pregnant bump (especially before it shows) which is so taxing on the mother's body but imperceptible to anyone else, the infinite reflections over the artistic outcome that becomes eventually a painting or a novel. Both are almost completely hidden from the public eye but are so crucial to us bearing fruit. And then of course there are painful and sometimes tragic times for both mothers and creators when the invisible work never sees the light of day. Lots to think about here.
Thank you Eugenia! And these are all such brilliant examples of the hidden work that is essential for the next step in the process 🙏🏼
Great piece Elin!
How we love to put things in neat categories ~ the age old debate of splitting artist from mother is yet another consequence of our society’s inability to recognise that a woman can have a varied and full life with numerous identities. There's this mythology that being a woman artist is hard enough but once we become mothers it's near impossible EXCEPT look around at all the evidence. There's so MUCH artist mother talent. Look in the mirror my friend.
Getting paid for actual value of work - neither care nor artistry is valued enough. The underlying narrative seems to be that anyone could supply care (if they are mothers/women) and that anyone could learn to be artists. It's the undervaluation of what is included in the skills involved and the process plus in unseen/invisible aspects that is powerful in your piece.
🌀 Bust the myth of the entirely selfless mother figure. This pervasive ideology tries to suppress mother’s own needs with very practical implications for all mothers, artists or not.
🌀 Make invisible elements of being mother artists visible.
Your article puts your voice into that discussion! Bravo!
Love love this Danusia! And thank you 🙏🏼 the last bit of making the invisible visible is super fascinating to me and something I contemplate on all the time and I think pieces like this as well as imperfect audio, photos, videos whatever way you express, are all part of that process 💞
On Instagram yesterday, I saw a ceramic artist recall a story where someone was like, "for the price of your items I can just take a class and learn to do it myself!" Which is certainly a choice. But it also reveals how much people don't appreciate the fact that art costs money and artists arent obligated to work for free. I think this expectation of free labor from certain types of visual artists is astounding.
I love embroidery! I've never paid for a loop but I haven't found anyone who makes the type of art I like to buy.
Right, it’s a choice as you say, I actually (when I got those comments) told them to make it themselves no harsh feelings. Because I wouldn’t want someone who doesn’t value ME doing it to buy it. An art piece is not a commodity, it’s an emotional experience 🙏🏼
This resonates deeply! I'm not a human mother but one of my full-time jobs is to be our household manager, and the mental load is constant. I'm grateful for our family situation that allows me to take on smaller projects, but I often feel the need to justify my daily agenda, to "make it count."
Oh how I feel you on the “need to justify bit”, I used to feel like that too despite making a full time income from my art…. It’s mind blowing really how deeply rooted the brainwashing of what counts as work and not sits! And to venture out on new yet un-paid trials… oh how dare you! 😅 deeply appreciate you joining me in the journey 🥰🙏🏼💞
"Expressing and embodying the invisible work as part of your artistic persona" is such a beautiful concept. It really has to be considered part of the job! My mentor used to go on a long walk every day. When they moved to a new little town, his wife went around to all the neighbors and asked them please not to talk to him on his walks. "It might look like he's just walking the dog," she told them, "but he's actually very hard at work." I've always struggled to give myself the same permission to be truly, deeply busy with the invisible work of being a writer, creator, and mother. Thank you for this important reminder!
I like this story. I'll have to remember it and give myself permission to see my walks as such. Thank you for sharing.
Yes! As writers, there’s so much happening when it looks like nothing is happening!